Pakka Ghar no. 7, LK-42, pg- 23-24

Dear Members,

As on continuation of the series , I am posting in Pakka Ghar 7 from Lal-kitab-1942 edition page 23-24 . 

घर ७वां है पक्का शुक्कर का,  घूमता बुध ऊपर का है.

Ghara 7vāṁ hai pakkā śukkara kā, ghūmatā budha ūpara kā hai.

दोनो इक्कठे चक्की चलती, निचला शुक्कर माना है.

Dōnō ikkaṭhē cakkī calatī, nicalā śukkara mānā hai.

7th H is Pakka House of Venus, and metamorphic-ally, Mercury is rotating upper part of grindstone.

lower part of grinding stone is Venus which is basically fix, both together runs the hand grind-mill.

 

बुध ७वें का चक्क घुमारां, मिटटी शुक्कर होती है.

Budha 7vēṁ kā cakka ghumārāṁ, miṭaṭī śukkara hōtī hai.

दोनों घुमावें कीली लोहे की, घर ८वे जो होती है.

 Dōnōṁ ghumāvēṁ kīlī lōhē kī, ghara 8vē jō hōtī hai.

The rotation is Mercury and the mud is Venus.
Both are moved by the iron nail fix at center of potter wheel which is represented by 8th house.

[Nirmal ji] It refers to the potter wheel on which the mud is place to make a pot. Together both rotates the Keeli(Normally the keeli is called the central anchor or pivot) of the wheel which is situated in House no 8^th. In my opinion It may be referring to the cycle of life which is governed by both the planets.

शुक्कर,बुध जब दो हो इक्कठे, शनि भी उम्दा होता है.

Śukkara,budha jaba dō hō ikkaṭhē, śani bhī umdā hōtā hai.

अन्न दौलत की कमी न कोई, घी मिटटी से निकलता है.

Anna daulata kī kamī na kō'ī, ghī miṭaṭī sē nikalatā hai.

Venus & Mercury when are together, Saturn will be benefic.

There will be no shortage of food &  money , as 'ghee' (clarified butter) will come out from mud. 

तरफ जनूबी-मगरिब, गाय,  औरत, शान, बैरूनी है.

 Tarapha janūbī-magariba, gāya, aurata, śāna, bairūnī hai
.

Direction is south-west, cow, women, reputation (shaan), foreigner (bairuni).

[Nirmalji] ’Shaan Bairuni’- are combine words and is being referred to as bahri shaan of the person.
 

अहवाल हथेली, जर्रे मिटटी के, तराजू, शादी, उन्नति है.

Ahavāla hathēlī, jarrē miṭaṭī kē, tarājū, śādī, unnati hai.

Reading or centre of palm, pieces of mud, two arm balance or scale (Tula rasi in 7H), marriage, betterment and upliftment.

 

फल, सफेदी, तुख्म, पलस्टर,  घर लड़कियो के लेते है.

Phala, saphēdī, tukhma, palasṭara, ghara laṛakiyō kē lētē hai.

Fruits, painting of house or white washing of walls, seed (for child), plaster of house, house of females or daughters.

जैसे शुक्कर हो वैसे ही सब फल, निचले पत्थर से लेते है.

Jaisē śukkara hō vaisē hī saba phala, nicalē pat'thara sē lētē hai.

बना फूल बुध तो हो पिस्तान लड़की, जुबान नेक होवे, तो गोआई शुभ की.

Banā phūla budha tō hō pistāna laṛakī, jubāna nēka hōvē, tō gō'ā'ī śubha kī.

The position of Venus will say the results and is taken from lower part of grindstone.

If results is flower ie budh (female) than she will be very efficient ( Pistan = Breast ?) and if her words are sweet than she will be an effluent orator.    

[Nirmal ji]  Pistan ladki- breast of a girl.

पैदाइश हो अंडे से,  कुव्वत हो बाह की.

Paidā'iśa hō aṇḍē sē, kuvvata hō bāha kī.

Animals\birds born from egg, power to produce.(power of hand).

मुसाम-व-अक्ल अपने,  दौलत सुभा की.

Musāma-va-akla apanē, daulata subhā kī.

Hair pores in skin or hair follicle, intelligence, wealth of others.

घर  पहले से खाली होते,  ७ वा फ़ौरन सोया.

Ghara pahalē sē khālī hōtē, 7 vā faurana sōyā.

दिन उसी ही सूरज निकले,  ८ जब दूजे होया.

Dina usī hī sūraja nikalē, 8 jaba dūjē hōyā.

If first house is empty than 7H is dormant.

It will be active only from that day when 8th comes to 2nd.

शुक्कर, बुध, उस टेवे जैसे , कही भी उसके बैठे हो.

Śukkara, budha, usa ṭēvē jaisē, kahī bhī usakē baiṭhē hō.

फल वैसे ही घर ७वे के, उस टेवे में होते है.

Phala vaisē hī ghara 7vē kē, usa ṭēvē mēṁ hōtē hai.

The position of venus and mercury in the horoscope will finally modify the results of 7H.

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It is requested kindly discuss on this topic to further clarify the meanings of the text.

Regards,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur
Astrologer & Vastu consultant.
www.IndianAstroVedic.com


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Dear members,

Further in continuation of the series i am posting Khana number 7 from LK-1952 page 73-74.

गृहस्ती चक्की

Livelihood and its cycles.

आकाश जमीन दो पत्थर ७ वे रिज़क अक्ल की चक्की हो.

Ākāśa jamīna dō pat'thara 7 vē rizaka akla kī cakkī hō.

In 7 house ,sky, earth are two stones of grind mill, indicate career and knowledge.

दोनों घुमावे कीली लोहे की घर आठवे जो होती है.

Dōnōṁ ghumāvē kīlī lōhē kī ghara āṭhavē jō hōtī hai.

Both rotates with the help of pivot iron nail which is situated in 8H.

Here LK says that whenever planets in 8H comes to 8H in Varshphal or in house number 1 than that planets will act within the rules of friendship and enmity.

घर पहले के खाली होते ७ व फ़ौरन सोया

Ghara pahalē kē khālī hōtē 7 va faurana sōyā

If 1^st house is empty than 7^th is dormant.

पांच साला हो सूरज निकले ८ जब दूजे होया

Pān̄ca sālā hō sūraja nikalē 8 jaba dūjē hōyā

Either from 5 years age fortune will rise or when 8^th  comes to 2^nd .

दोस्त शुक्कर हो घूमते पत्थर शत्रु पत्थर गड़े माना है.

Dōsta śukkara hō ghūmatē pat'thara śatru pat'thara gaṛē mānā hai.

Friends of Venus (Mercury, Saturn & Ketu) will help the rotation of below stone that is for livelihood and status of income and these planet are of rasi  phal.

Enemies of Venus (Sun. Moon, Rahu) will say the status of losses and of grah phal.

बुध बराबर चक घुमारान साथी हत्थे को जाना है.

जैसा शुक्कर हो वैसे ही सब फल निचले पत्थर से होते है.

Budha barābara caka ghumārāna sāthī hat'thē kō jānā hai.

Jaisā śukkara hō vaisē hī saba phala nicalē pat'thara sē hōtē hai.

Instead of two stone only single stone like potter’s wheel for purpose of family, Mars or Jupiter will acts as stone, the rotation will depend on status and position of Venus in the horoscope.

बाकी असर ग्रह अपनों अपना साथी को प्रबल गिनते है.

Bākī asara graha apanōṁ apanā sāthī kō prabala ginatē hai.

Rest planets gives there own results and makes their companion more strong.

दो से ज्यादा घर ७ वें में स्त्री ग्रह नर होते है.

उसूल मिलावट बेशक अपने असर मर्द पर करते है.

Dō sē jyādā ghara 7 vēṁ mēṁ strī graha nara hōtē hai.

Usūla milāvaṭa bēśaka apanē asara marda para karatē hai.

If more than two planets in 7H than females planets acts as male planets.

Rule of mixing of planets will be applied and their results will seen on male planets.

Generally female planets acts on females and males planets acts on male but there will be change in this rule.

For example :

If Moon in 7H with 2 or more planets than the net results of aspects and other planets on moon will generally effect mother of the native but now here the condition will change and above net effect will be on father ( Jupiter).

Similarly if Venus is with two or more  planets in 7H than instead its effect which goes to  wife, it will effect the native himself.

Regards,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur
Vedic Astrologer & Vastu consultant.
www.IndianAstroVedic.com
 

Pakka Ghar no. 6, LK-42, pg- 22

Dear Members,


Hare Rama Krsna,

I am posting commentary on the 6H in Lal kitab, in continuation of the series of LK- Pakka ghar, LK-42, page 22. 

घर ६वें पाताल में बैठे,  केतु , बुध इक्ट्ठे है.
दुश्मन गो वह बाहम होते, इस जा वह नहीं लड़ते है.
House no 6 is Underground \ basement, ketu and mercury both sits together here.

enemies in this house does not fight each other. (mercury and ketu are enemy)

केतु लड़का तो बुध है लड़की, दुम कुत्ते की साथी है.

ketu is boy and mercury is girl, dog is ketu and it's tail is mercury.

रिश्तेदार हों मात-पिता के, अक्ल सफर खुद खाकी है.

Relative of mother and father, intelligence, travel and dryness.

बुध सेवा नहीं  शुक्कर करता, केतु भी धोका देता है.

Mercury does not help, Venus cares, even ketu cheats here.

[Nirmalji] Even they are friends of Venus,mercury & ketu will not help Venus in this house. Venus will be bereft of progeny & sex.

अकेले-अकेले ही दोनों उम्दा, मिल कर चेहरा बनता है.

Both individually gives positive results, both simultaneously makes the face of the person. 

आकार चेहरे का गर बुध से हो, खूबसूरत हो केतु से.

Shape of face is given by mercury, attraction and beauty is given by ketu.

नौ हो ग्रह पाताल में होते, देखते तरफ हों सब ही के.
This line needs more explanation.
Here exalted planet mercury and rahu will never give weak results neither they will make 1,4,7,10 H or 2H malefic.

[Nirmalji] This line refers to a special nature of the planets posited in House no 6. The planet in this house  will effect the planet in 1-4-7-10 (Bund muthi ke khane)
The meaning of this line will become clear after we take up 1952 book.

फूलना-फलना, कद कदामत, तनासुब हथेली ऊँगली की.

Prosperity and health, height and tallness, fore portion of fingers.

खटाई व गोबर या हो सच्ची नेकी, या रफ़्तार गुफ्तार हो केतु की.

Sour (tamarind), cow-dung or true help, or speed and words belongs to ketu.

नाना-नानी या मामू उसके, हमदर्दी फोकी बुध की है.

Maternal grandparents or uncles,  false sympathy is of mercury.

इर्द गिर्द वह मकान का होवे, जायका, पटठे, सब्जी है.

Nearby of house, taste, pathe, vegetables.

[Nirmalji]
ird gird refers the space around the house .
zayqa , pathe, sabzi are seperate words
Zayqa - Means taste(power of taste),
Pathe means the nerves related to brain systems
Sabzi- Vegetables.

In Punjabi, Pathe is called the green feed/fodder given to cattle. But in lalkitab it is referred as the nerveous system(Nadiyan) , Mercury is also the significator of nerves.  

बर्ताव होवे या हो साहूकारा, पेशानी चेहरा होती है.

behaviour or honestiness, forehead of face.

तरफ शुमाल या हो फोका पानी, फूल सगंध्या होती है.
Direction is North or mirage of water and scented flowers.


आकार, परिंदे, हाथ के नाख़ून, सुख औलाद का होता है

shapes, birds, nails of fingers, happiness from children.

.

भाख्या भाओ अपार हो दुनिया, नक्कारा खल्क भी होता है.

Commitment from society, subdued person of society.

This line needs more explanation.

[Nirmalji]  
In my opinion it refer to one's " power of speech" in public
"Naqara Khalaq bhee hota hai
Naqara means Nagaada (a sound from a special type of drum) khalaq means
srishti. In my opinion it refers to the Message of God (Triloki ) or numen.

Normally in local dialact in punjab 'Bhakya' also means  'Bachan' (Not vachan) I don't know how to express it in English or hindi.

 

***
[Harinderji]

I am only giving a literal translation:

Bhakyan (Vak or speech) Bhau (Bhav or Emotion) Apar (Bina Anth or Unlimited).

In this specific case it might mean all possible manners or kinds of speech connected to describing all possible emotions that exist in society & in describing all possible streams of knowledge. The connection to the planet Mercury & significations of Mercury is possibly described here. The 6th house is linked to Mercury as is well known.

This phrase is used, as per my limited knowledge, in the 4th Stanza of the Japuji Sahib which was channeled by Guru Nanak. The original phrase there is:

Sacha Sahib Sache Nain, Bhakyan Bhau Apar.

Sacha (truth which also means eternal) Sahib (master) Sache (true or eternal) Nain (Name), Bhakyan (reciting) Bhau (with emotion of love) Apar (unlimited).

In other words, the Name of the Lord, who is also truth personified or eternal, is true or eternal, so recite his name with unlimited love & without counting.

केतु की चीजे पर केतु हो मंदा, पर मंदा न हो दूसरों पर.

On the item of ketu it will be malefic, but does not bring malefic results on others.

बुध भी वा गर साथी होवे, खुद मंदा बुरा दूसरों पर.

Mercury is with some planet, than itself will be weak and other will also become malefic.

उम्र मंदी इस ग्रह की होवे, घर ६वें आ बैठी जो.

Age of planet is destroyed which comes in 6H.

[Nirmalji] Planet which is posited in 6th house will give bad result during its age.



लाख उपाओ करें न टलदा,  ग्रह फल लिखा जिस को हो.

Doing million remedies of graha phal planet, will not work. The person has to face it.
Please note : Here except Sun, Jupiter and Moon all are of graha phal.

फल औलाद का शुक्कर रद्दी, पर रद्दी न दौलत हो.
गुरु, सूरज से कोई दूजे, शुक्कर का फल १२ हो.

Fruits of child will be destroyed if venus is here, but finance will remain intact.

If sun + jupiter in 2H, results of venus will like 12H.

बुध, केतु और शुक्कर टेवे, कही भी इसके बैठे हो.
 फल वैसे ही घर ६वें के, इस टेवे में होते है.

Mercury, ketu and venus anywhere in the chart, results of 6H will be like that.

Thankyou
Regards
Vijay Goel
Jaipur.
www.IndianAstroVedic.com

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Further Text from Lal Kitab -1952, page 69-70.

पाताल खाली घर जब तक रहता  नेक असर कुल देता हो.
Pātāla khālī ghara jaba taka rahatā nēka asara kula dētā hō.

If 6th house is empty, than it is a good sign.

Further explained that when 6H is empty, planets 2H and 12H will give results, if 2H has good planets and 12H also have favorable planets that it will be advisable to activate 6H (having no planets).

It will best to help maternal brother's family (मामू खानदान ) or daughters of own sister.(Here mercury is activated.) This will help to such a extent that planet in 6H  will act as a switch of electricity of machines, and quick results of 2H and 12H will be seen.

दूजे बैठे की पहली अवस्था असर ६ पर होता हो.
Dūjē baiṭhē kī pahalī avasthā asara 6 para hōtā hō
. 

The good results of 2H will be the combine effect with 6H.

उम्र मंदी ग्रह खुद वह होगा घर ६ वे आ बैठे जो.
बैठे  हुए ग्रह की अपनी ग्रह चाली उम्र और खुद ग्रह मुतअल्लिका की जाती अश्या का असर.

Umra mandī graha khuda vaha hōgā ghara 6 vē ā baiṭhē jō. 

Baiṭhē hu'ē graha kī apanī graha cālī umra aura khuda graha muta'allikā kī jātī aśyā kā asara.

When the age of planet placed in 6H, the items related to that planet suffers.

 

लाख उपाओं करे न टलता ग्रह फल लिखा जिसको हो.
Lākha upā'ōṁ karē na ṭalatā graha phala likhā jisakō hō.

Here Sun, Jupiter and moon are of Rasi phal and all other planets will be of Grah phal, Mercury and Ketu will be malefic till there own age or as per the age of the planet sitting in 8H.

Or malefic effect of planet in 6H can goes to that house where Mercury, Ketu or Venus is sitting.

अकेला बैठा या हो मुश्तरका  बंद मुट्टी के खानों में.
Akēlā baiṭhā yā hō muśtarakā banda muṭṭī kē khānōṁ mēṁ.


The explanation of above line as provided is 
Saturn in 6H reversely aspect on 2H, so when Sun or Moon is in 2H, than if Mars is placed in 4H than it will be not Mars Badh.
 
९ ही ग्रह पाताल में बैठे देखा करे उन तरफो में.
9 Hī graha pātāla mēṁ baiṭhē dēkhā karē una taraphō mēṁ

Exalted planets of 6H ie Mercury , Rahu will be never malefic in quadrant houses (1,4,7,10) nor it will give malefic results to 2H.

१०-५ वे का दुश्मन जहरी  हुक्म राहू का पाता हो.
10-5 Vē kā duśmana jaharī hukma rāhū kā pātā hō.
साथ मगर २-८  दृष्टी  फैसला ६ का होता हो.
Sātha magara 2-8 dr̥ṣṭī phaisalā 6 kā hōtā 



10-5 House position indicate poisonous relationship (Takrao Dristi), comes under the guidance of Rahu. 
But if 2-8 aspect is associated than planet in 6H will finally guide the results.


---x---

Thankyou

Regards

Vijay Goel

Jaipur.

Vedic astrologer & Vastu Consultant.

www.IndianAstroVedic.com

Lalkitab Review - 5

Dear All,
  Let me add one more mail to this Lalkitab review sequence. 

Continuing the method we have outlined let me continue this discussion by considering the second point I listed in the Review -2 mail.

Point – 2

// 2)      Planetary Aspect (Drishti) – Planetary aspect is the same as in AIA. But there is a clause. `Aspect will be felt only if aspected house is occupied by another planet'. For example if Sun is placed in 10th house from Saturn then it can be said that Sun is aspected by Saturn. But if 10th house is vacant, then it cannot be said that Saturn is aspecting 10th house.//

Possibly that was too simple. Let me clarify a bit further. There are two types of aspects considered in LK. 1) Full aspect (which includes direct aspect as well as special aspect) and 2) Partial aspect  We remember that these two considerations are there in AIA as well. Let us consider them one by one.

Full aspect: This includes direct aspect as well as special aspect.  Direct aspect is the aspect on the 7^th house from the house where the planet is placed. Special aspect is for Jupiter (on 5^th and 9^th), Mars (on 4^th and 8^th) and Saturn (on 3^rd and 10^th). As stated earlier the only extra clause is that - Aspect will be felt only if aspected house is occupied by another planet. But considering the fact that Partial aspect is also considered and also that there is a concept of dormant houses and planets, a clarification should be added. As per LK whether there is a planet in the aspected house or not the aspect would be there, but adds that the aspect results would be really felt if only there is a planet in the aspected house. Or in short generally speaking the full aspect concept of LK is the same as in AIA.

Partial Aspect: There seems to be total confusion regarding how the partial aspect should be counted in various LK camps. One camp states that the partial aspect is exactly the same as in AIA (i.e. 25% aspect in 3-10; 50% aspect in 5-9; 75% aspect in 4-8; and 0% aspect in 2-6-11-12); another camp states that the aspect should be counted in some other manner (e.g. 100% in 1-4-7-10; 505% in 3-5-9-11; 25% in 2-6-8-12); yet another camp is in another confusion. Let us leave the LK camps to fight among themselves and come to a conclusion on this. As of now instead of accepting any one parties opinion it is better for us that we leave this issue here accepting the diplomatic statements such as the one put forward by Nirmal ji – i.e. `The Drishti concept is totally different and still more research is required in this concept'. That is, no comment on this regard is worthwhile or going to lead to a definite conclusion at this point.  

To be stated in general the LK perspective on Drishti (aspect) does seem to be compatible with AIA view (at least from a liberal view than an orthodox view). Anyway possibly there are neither any shortcuts nor longcuts used by LK here, but the concepts seem to be similar.

Point - 4

// 3)      Some say that, as per Lalkitab planets change significance when they change house. For example Moon in 4th indicate mother, in 6th indicate maternal grand mother, in 8th indicate elder aunt, in 10th younger aunt etc. But may be instead of assuming that planet is changing significance as they change house, we can explain it better if we assume that the house signify such relatives and the results are getting visible through the planets situated there. //

As almost every LK followers seems to accept by now (here Bhooshan Priya ji and Nirmal ji already expressed this opinion I think), these are house significance rather than planetary significance. It is better correct to assume that "the house signify such relatives and the results are getting visible through the planets situated there". Or in short there is not much of difference between LK and AIA regarding this, may be except minor difference of opinion regarding the fact that which house signify what (which relative etc). For example the questions and confusions such as whether it is 9^th or 10^th which signify father etc are common to both LK and AIA. Thus here too LK approach seems to be well compatible with the AIA perspective. Anyway possibly there are neither any shortcuts nor longcuts used by LK here, but the concepts seem to be similar.

Point – 5

// 4)      The concept of Dridha and Adhridha results is present in lalkitab system as well. As accepted in AIA Dridha results cannot be modified or changed with remedies but Adridha results can.  But there is something special in deciding which are dridha and which are adridha results. Let me explain it a bit. As per LK every house is assigned one or more planets which indicate `planet of sign results' (rasiphal ka grah) and `planet of planet results' (grahaphal ka grah). It is said that `Planet of planet results' indicate dridha results and `planet of sign results' indicate adridha results.  The remedies are said to work only for adridha results, i.e. results indicated by `planet of sign results'. Or in other words – "those planets which are considered as of `grah phal' are of dridha results and no upaya can be done for those planets. Those planets which are considered of `rasi phal' in a house are of adhridha results and an upaya can be done for them". //

The list of `planet of sign results' and `planet of planet results' related to every house would be given below –

House	Planet of Planet result (Grah phal ka grah) – indicating Dridha phal	Planet of House Result (Rasi phal ka grah) – indicating Adridha phal
1	Ma	Ra
2	Ra, Ke	-
3	Sa	Sa (for money matters)
4	Mo	Ma, Ve, Ke
5	Ju, Su	-
6	Me, Ke	Sa
7	Ve	Su, Ju, Ra
8	Ma	-
9	Ju	Sa
10	Sa	Me, Ke
11	Ju, Sa	-
12	Ra	Me

How to determine which result is Dridha Phal (results indicated by Graha phal ka grah) and which is Adridha phal (results indicated by Rasi phal ka grah) as per LK? Let me quote the words of Nirmal ji as stated in one of the earlier mails posted in this thread-

"The main rule is the planet which resides in its Pakka Ghar, Rashi or Ghar, Its ghar of Exaltation or debilitation then it becomes Grah Phal Planets.  The planets in other conditions became of rashi phal. In the later case the remedial measures can be prescribed by an astrologer. But in former case though in few circumstances the remedies are given in book and are considered safe. Pt. Ji has given a hidden warning that Few Great souls in the world can prescribe the remedies, but the result will be tit for tat. The story of Babar & Hamayun is cited as an example.

In both the cases the effect of planet cannot be altered. the summary of example given in the book is : A lion is coming towards a person. He raises a wall between him and Lion. Lion try to jump upon the wall he raises the wall more. So the lion cannot be stopped or driven away but the wall  keeps on saving the man"

Later in a bit irrigated tone to my statement – "Usually even the walls will not be useful against Dridha results, even if someone try constructing the wall, the lion will jump over
the wall and eat the man for sure", Nirmal ji clarified further -

"In case of Grah Phal Planets , even If the remedy is performed as suggested by some great person having its soul connected with God(it is not possible for the normal human to alter the result of Grah Phalplanet) , The man can be saved, but the lion may eat some other person probably the relative near to him which means that the effect  is transferred to other person(That is why Babar Hamayun story is referred. Father performed remedy for the sake of Son's life. Son saved but father died)"

OK. I think that makes the basic picture regarding this from LK perspective I think. Any way in AIA perspective the technique for finding Dridha and Adridha results are entirely different. As per AIA –

Any result indicated by the three such as Yoga, Dasa and Gochara together are termed Dridha Results. Any result indicated by either one or two among the three (such as Yoga, Dasa, Gochara) are called Adirdha results.

Thus definitely the technique used to find Dridha and Adridha results differ here, but still the underlying concept seems to be the same – i.e. Dridha results cannot be normally altered is certain to happen, where as the Aridha results can be altered through remedies. In total here we see a partial compatibility between LK and AIA, though not total.

Point – 6

 // 5)     Friends and Enemy Planets: The concept and table is almost similar to AIA. But even if natural enemy, planets in the same house are treated as friends. It is similar to the `temporary friendship' concept of AIA.//

In AIA there is a concept of permanent friends and temporary friends – and the same can be considered in LK as well. Let us compare the LK and AIA view regarding both.  

Permanent friendship-enmity:

Sl	Planet	Friend	Enemy	Nutral/Medium
1	Sun (LK)	Mo, Ma, Ju	Ve, Sa, (Ra)	Me, Ke
	Sun  (AIA)	Mo, Ma, Ju	Ve, Sa, (Ra)	Me, (Ke)
2	Moon (LK)	Su, Me	(Ke)	Ma, Me, Ve, Sa, Ra
	Moon (AIA)	Su, Me	(Ke)	Ma, Ju, Ve, Sa, (Ra)
3	Mars (LK)	Su, Mo, Ju	Me, Ke	Ve, Sa, (Ra)
	Mars (AIA)	Su, Mo, Ju	Me, (Ke)	Ve, Sa, (Ra)
4	Mercury (LK)	Su, Ve, Ra	Mo	Ma, Ju, Sa, Ke
	Mercury (AIA)	Su, Ve, (Ra)	Mo	Ma, Ju, Sa, (Ke)
5	Jupiter (LK)	Su, Mo, Ma	Me, Ve	Sa, Ra, Ke
	Jupiter (AIA)	Su, Mo, Ma	Me, Ve	Sa, (Ra, Ke)
6	Venus (LK)	Me, Sa, Ke	Su, Mo, Ra	Ma, Ju
	Venus (AIA)	Me, Sa, (Ke)	Su, Mo, (Ra)	Ma, Ju
7	Saturn (LK)	Me, Ve, Ra	Su, Mo, Ma	Ju, Ke
	Saturn (AIA)	Me, Ve, (Ra)	Su, Mo, Ma	Ju, (Ke)
8	Rahu (LK)	Me, Sa, Ke	Su, Ma, Ve	Ju, Mo
	Rahu (AIA)	(Me, Sa, Ke)	(Su, Ma, Ve)	(Ju, Mo)
9	Ketu (LK)	Ve, Ra	Mo, Ma	Me, Ju, Sa
	Ketu (AIA)	(Ve, Ra)	(Mo, Ma)	(Me, Ju, Sa)

Every planet given in bracket in the above list depicts some amount of confusion regarding whether to include it there or not. As you could note there is a lot of confusion regarding where to include Rahu and Ketu in AIA, where in that amount the similar confusion cannot be found in LK, even though there too the same is present. As you could see both the lists are compatible and actually it is better to say that LK has resolved some of the confusions regarding Rahu and Ketu present in AIA! Good! LK list seems to be an improved version of AIA friendship-enmity list for planets! May be AIA followers should take lesson from LK on this! Thus LK and AIA has excellent compatibility here.

Temporary friendship-enmity:

As per AIA, planets placed in 10-11-12-1-2-3-4 are considered as temporary friends.

LK do not go for all these complexity, but simply treat any planet placed along with another planet simply as friends! This excellent expert short-cut approach of LK we will witness in many more scenarios. 

As I become more and more familiar with LK, for me it seems like a simple and straight villager's approach to astrology. An expert villager who is not interested in complexities but in predicting, in deriving results, and nothing else! Whatever tools and shortcuts come handy he uses all of them! Possibly this is the very reason –

1)      LK drops all vargas and depends on Natal chart alone

2)      When it comes to temporary friendship-enmity of planets LK drops all complexity and treats planets in the same house, simply as friends.

3)      LK drops the whole concept of Signs and Nakshatras and uses only houses.

4)      Apart from astrology LK tries to utilize Hastarekha, Samudrika and Vastu wherever possible.

5)      LK tries go well in tune with the village culture and rituals, and utilizes the common mans idioms, phrases, ethics  and beliefs extensively.

Thus LK is a method that should be valued – because it is down to earth practical astrologers approach. Here we learn a new and very important lesson in our LK study – note it and remember it – we CANNOT expect to find complex rules in LK. If someone says that rules regarding something is complex is LK, that simply means that he is NOT understanding that section/portion of LK at all! LK cannot be complex, but only simple and straight! This realization could be very helpful to us while trying to understand the thought to be complex areas in LK for sure!

Enough for the day.

Love and regards,
Sreenadh
-------------------------

Respected Sreenadh ji,

Nice work, among all 5 reviews  i mark 4th part the best one.

//As I become more and more familiar with LK, for me it seems like a simple and straight villager's approach to astrology. An expert villager who is not interested in complexities but in predicting, in deriving results, and nothing else! Whatever tools and shortcuts come handy he uses all of them!//

Exactly !

Thankyou,
Regards
Vijay Goel
Jaipur


-----------------

Dear Vijay Goel ji,

//> Nice work, among all 5 reviews i mark 4th part the best one.//
  It is through 4 that we came to 5, and it is through 5 that we will go to 6. So one step cannot be better than the other - every step is relevant.

//> Exactly ! [:)]//
  Thanks for this note. That confirms that I am in the right track.

Love and regards,
Sreenadh

Lalkitab Review - 4

Dear All,
  Let me add one more mail to this Lalkitab review sequence. 

Point -1 (a)

Before moving into discussing planetary aspect etc I should mention some other basic concepts that are much relevant to LK system I think. I mean - AIA concept of Sun being king, Moon being Queen, Mars the commander, Mercury the Prince etc and a similar concepts in LK.

Almost every indian knowledge branch while presenting the subject will have some mysterious story to tell which we wish or not becomes part of the foundation of that knowledge branch.  Examples could be –

1)      The story of the Demon falling from sky and the 108 devas finding place in his body in Vastu

2)      The concept of Kalapurusha and the above told story of Sun being king, Moon being queen etc in AIA

3)      The stories of Dhandwantari and Aswini Kumaras in Ayurveda

Even ascribing the karakatwa of soul to Sun, Mind to Moon, Courage to Mars etc can be considered as part of such foundation stories. 

LK too has its own set of such foundation stories, most of which are in tune with the AIA approach as well. Let me list some of these foundation stories supported by rich imagery. 

1)      1^st-7^th-8^th -11^th houses should be analyzed together. Because, planets in 1^st house is the ruler (king), 7^th house the minister, 8^th house the people who are the eyes of the minister, and 11^th house (the people who are) rulers foot (worshipers). 

Of course from AIA perspective also this is easy to understand since 1^st house is the self, 7^th house the partner, 6^th and 8^th the eyes of the partner (6^th being the inside advice and 8^th being the outside advice; 6^th being the left eye and 8^th being the right eye; 6^th being the friends the self knows and 8^th being the friends self usually don't know but closer to the partner), 11^th house indicating the messenger, and naturally indicating the foot worshipers of the native since 11^th house is the legs, and of ofcourse indicating public that spreads too much news since 7^th to 12^th houses are in visible half and 11^th being indicative of ear. 

2)      2^nd -9^th -4^th houses should be analyzed together. Because, the monsoon that arises in the 9^th house takes the laden clouds of fortune to the 2^nd house where they rain down. Resultantly the crops grow in the 4^th house.

 

Ofcourse from AIA perspective also this is easy to understand, since 9^th house is the father and teacher, 2^nd house is the home where father and mother live together, and 4^th house is the mother as well as the house and the properly around the house where the native grows especially during his childhood and teenage. If 9^th (father) is not good, the home cannot be, and so would be the property and happiness (indicated by 4^th house).

LK lists out some other houses too that should be analyses together, either because all of them has some common subject connection as mentioned in the above two examples, or because of possibility of mutual aspect (such as 3^rd and 9^th; 2^nd and 8^th; 11^th and 5^th etc) or due to some other connections such as the trine connection etc. Let us remember that as per LK the planets placed in trine to each other are called `planets of foundation' or `mutually helping houses' – and some puts it as `they aspect each other/support each other' etc. 

There are several other AIA like concepts as well popular in LK, such as giving extra importance to 2^nd house from every house. It is a well known principle in AIA that 2^nd house from every house enriches that house. Talking on similar lines LK states that- "The planet that is posited in 2^nd house becomes the planet of fortune or luck' (especially if there is a planet is the 10^th house)". Note the special importance given to 2^nd house in the above statement and also that the 10^th house is, 9^th house from 2^nd house. The underlying principles in such statements could be - 1^st house becomes lucky due to the planets in 9^th house, 2^nd house enriches 1^st house, planets in 9^th house from 2^nd  – i.e. in 10^th enriches 2^nd house, ultimately worshiping great fortune on the 1^st house – i.e. the native. 

In all such scenarios we notice that the underlying system is AIA itself, but what LK does is the expert adaptation of the same, an excellent shortcut, which often hides even the underlying core concepts. 

Love and regards,
Sreenadh

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Respected Sreenadh ji and members,

Excellent works !  No doubt in it .

//

1)      1^st-7^th-8^th -11^th houses should be analyzed together. Because, planets in 1^st house is the ruler (king), 7^th house the minister, 8^th house the people who are the eyes of the minister, and 11^th house (the people who are) rulers foot (worshipers).

//

Just an addition to above point as per LK perspective.
it says that :

A) Planets in 1-7 are king and minister, so to check the planet which is assigned as minister,  is fit enough to obey the king, as per the given condition in the book.
Suppose if Venus is in 7H and sun + moon in 1H than the condition of wife's health may deplete thus bring difficulty to native.

B) Planets in 1-8 H : Here this relation indicate logical - illogical  intelligence and Dharmic - Adharmic  attitude. Hence if both are enemies native is bound to be misguided
and thus his decision will be full of flaws, resulted into miss-happening in his life.
Here we can check which articles, relations, (ashiya) of planets is producing the problems.

C) Planets in 1-11 H : 11H is foot means direction, if both planets are enemies than native will be directionless and aimless.
Just think what are the physiological condition that makes native aimless, (suppose if we read only palm how we will know, as palm indicate abstract values).

Significance (Karaktattwa) role of planets plays the major role while analyzing any number of Bhava together, for the particular purpose.

From above we can infer that if 1-7-8-11 H , all planets  are in harmonious,  person is bound to rise with peaceful disposition and intelligence.

In this way we can understand other combination, like Khanna 9-2-4  ( Dhan yoga type combination.)

I hope i am able to convey my message.

Regards,
Vijay Goel
Jaipur.

----------

Dear Vijay Goel ji,
  Thanks for the good pointers.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

--------------

Dear Vijay Ji,

You have mentioned:
 
"Suppose if Venus is in 7H and sun + moon in 1H than the condition of wife's health may deplete thus bring difficulty to native."
 Such a combination can occur in LK Varsh Kundli.This means that wife will have ill health
in that year alone.
In LK many dicta are given which are applicable to Varsha Kundli.
You have further commented :

"From above we can infer that if 1-7-8-11 H , all planets  are in harmonious,  person is bound to rise with peaceful disposition and intelligence."
The planets in 1-8 houses are in Takrao position.What is really meant that the planets
may be placed in these four houses in harmonious disposition.
Be kind to explain.Do you mean that planets in 8H will not harm planets in Lagna.
Regards,

 

G.K.GOEL
INDIA
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Respected Goel Sahab,

Pranam.

//Be kind to explain.Do you mean that planets in 8H will not harm planets in Lagna.//

The text says that if both planets are enemy to each other, person will lose foresight, His actions will be illogical (Bey Dalil), text says his generosity will decrease and his intelligence will be overpowered by the enemy planets. Hence misguided. His behavior will be 'tit for tat' type, 'blood for blood'.

But if 8H planet is friendly to 1H than he will be supported by good advice.

Similarly 1-11 position is said by one word 'Bey Lagaam', aimless \ wanderer.

Thanks,
Regards
Vijay Goel
Jaipur
---------

Viajy Ji,Sreenadh Ji,Nirmal Ji,Gopal ji and members,
Vijay ji aapki tatha sreenadh ji mehnat kabile-tarif hai,lekin jab aap lk tatha kisi dusri padhiti ko mix karenge ya karne kee koshish karte hain to uss se aap ko uljhan hogi.jo lk ke jankar hain ya iss mein  maharat rakhte hain woh zyadatar aapko north India mein hee milenge aur woh bhee khas kar ke Punjab mein. vajah sirf yehi hai ki ek to lk Urdu mein likhi gayee hai,zyadatar iss mein rural touch (woh bhee punjabi) hai,jisse ek anubhavi hee samajh sakta hai.

Mein yeh bhee manata hoon ki lk par North India ka hee haq nahi hai,gyan kisi bhasha mein badhak nahi hona chahiye.agar aapko(Sreenadh) gyan kee itni hee pyas hai to lk ko lk kee nazar se hee dekhna padega.abb mein Vijay Goel ji ki mail se hee ek ref. de rahan hoon,yeh kaise sambhav hai aap bataye...(vijay ji /kulbir ji aap nahi kyonki iss vishay par aap logo se meri charcha ho chuki hai).... 

  

 A) Planets in 1-7 are king and minister, so to check the planet which is
 assigned as minister, is fit enough to obey the king, as per the given
 condition in the book.
 Suppose if Venus is in 7H and sun + moon in 1H than the condition of
 wife's health may deplete thus bring difficulty to native.

 

yeh kaise sambhav hai ki jab sun +moon 1st house mein ho to venus 7th house mein ho.iss baat ko janane ke liye lk ka jankar hona bahut hee zaroori hai.

 

adar sahit

Jagmohan Mahajan

 

( Vijay ji kripya iss ko english mein translate kar dein taki sab members kee samajh mein aa jaye )

-------------

Dear Jagmohan ji,
//lekin jab aap lk tatha kisi dusri padhiti ko mix karenge ya karne kee koshish karte hain to uss se aap ko uljhan hogi.//
  I agree with you and there certainly a possibility.  But certainly something is better than nothing. It is doubt that comes first and then doubt clarification/understanding - without out doubt coming first even the understanding cannot exist.
//jo lk ke jankar hain ya iss mein  maharat rakhte hain woh zyadatar aapko north India mein hee milenge aur woh bhee khas kar ke Punjab mein. vajah sirf yehi hai ki ek to lk Urdu mein likhi gayee hai,zyadatar iss mein rural touch (woh bhee punjabi) hai,jisse ek anubhavi hee samajh sakta hai.//  This could all be true - out our purpose is to make the core principle accessible and understandable to AIA followers; not to contribute anything special to LK. If it happens as a side effect (for example the extra acceptance and repute LK might get in these net forums), that is just a side effect. So here in this group LK discussion happens NOT for LK but for AIA followers - there is a perspective difference.
//> Mein yeh bhee manata hoon ki lk par North India ka hee haq nahi hai,gyan kisi bhasha mein badhak nahi hona chahiye.//
  Good point - let everyone (or at least AIA group members) become more familiar with at least the basics of these system.  And that is the whole purpose of this discussion.
//agar aapko(Sreenadh) gyan kee itni hee pyas hai to lk ko lk kee nazar se hee dekhna padega.//
  Certainly not interested if not for its comparison with AIA. As everyone in this group knows well, my core interest is AIA and not LK, and will remain so.  Here is LK is discussed primarily for AIA followers.
//abb mein Vijay Goel ji ki mail se hee ek ref. de rahan hoon,yeh kaise sambhav hai aap bataye...//
  May be this is not the ripe time for such question answers. The time for that will come later.  Or if may be our dear, friendly and sincere LK scholars who are well versed in ancient indian astrology as well such as Bhooshan Priya ji or Nirmal ji might answer you. That are better in handling such LK related questions and not me. (Have you seen me answering atleast one LK related question ever?!) So better you should avoid asking such questions to me who has only 10 days awareness or familiarity with LK. [For the record - I started looking at Lalkitab system only starting from 15th of Dec 2010, and plan to wind-up this whole discussion/thread by the end of Jan 2011 or before]
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

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Respected Mahajan ji & Sreenadh ji,

Thanks for the reply,

Majorly because of you i am able to understand the true and intrinsic meaning of LK. Though i tried continously to learn way back from 1998, bought Arun Sanhita, but failed miserably to understand.
After meeting with you i got the key and in real sense entered in the LK domain., rest original transliteration is helping to explore :)

I don't think  to translate your post, now,  as Sreenadh ji has well replied your mail.

// yeh kaise sambhav hai ki jab sun +moon 1st house mein ho to venus 7th house mein ho.iss baat ko janane ke liye lk ka jankar hona bahut hee zaroori hai.//

[translate] How it astronomically it will be  possible to have sun in 1H and venus in 7H, to understand this intrinsic meaning, understanding of LK is necessary.

Sreenadh ji,

Mahajan sahab is saying that even many instances non astronomical combination results are mentioned in LK which is again non-compatible to AIA, like Rahu-ketu may not be opposite always, mercury and venus can be in any 12 Khanna from sun.

In the 36 point - compatibility match with LK and AIA, even Nadi dosha is present, it is only Bhakut Dosha which is absent, all other doshas are present.    (Just a Joke)

Thankyou
Regards
Vijay Goel
Jaipur

----------

Dear Mahajan ji and Vijay Goel ji,
//How it astronomically it will be possible to have sun in 1H
> and venus in 7H, to understand this intrinsic meaning, understanding of
> LK is necessary.//  I missed this pointed in Mahajan ji's mail in my previous reading. I apologize to Mahajan ji for missing this valuable pointer he supplied us with.
//> Mahajan sahab is saying that even many instances non astronomical
> combination results are mentioned in LK //   Yes, I understand it now, and remember that some such combination are given in some AIA texts as well. And then again would like to add that such exceptions should not be our consideration at this primary round, but only the general core principles. (Yes, I could understand that what Maharaj ji points to is that LK should be looked at with giving importance to palmistry, samudrika sastra, vastu etc as well. But I don't think such an approach is relevant to the AIA system comparison or our primary round as of now)
//> In the 36 point - compatibility match with LK and AIA, even Nadi dosha
> is present//  There is no 36 point compatibility system in AIA; that is only a recent creation. And regarding the concept of Nadi dosha there are many possible things popular with the name Nadi dosha - I wonder to which of these you are pointing to. Can you please shed some more light on this? Do you want to say that Nakshatras are also known and considered in LK?
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

-----------
Respected Sreenadh ji,

//And then again would like to add that such exceptions should not be our consideration at this primary round, but only the general core principles.//

I agree,  continue with your reviews.

I just jokingly compared LK and AIA like bride and bridegroom matching in North Indian style .

Thanks,
Regards
Vijay Goel
Jaipur
-----------

Dear Vijay ji,
//> I just jokingly compared LK and AIA like bride and bridegroom matching
> in North Indian style //
Ha..Ha... Read the "Review -5" - Marriage is almost fixed!
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

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